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Obama's New Tax Plan Goes Under Attack

By Ana Kasparian

Watch: Obama's New Tax Plan Goes Under Attack

Barack Obama's tax plan continues to go misunderstood, and MSNBC spins it like you wouldn't believe! Why does the mainstream media believe Obama's tax plan is controversial? Watch the clip to find out!

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(50)

FILED UNDER: Guest Blogger

In the: "Ask A Liberal" section...
____________________
"We can bomb the world to pieces, but we can't bomb it into peace."
"Power to the peaceful..." --Franti

By SJerseyIndyAugust 20, 2008 - 6:53pm

OBAMA NEEDS TO GROW A PAIR

Obama is running a terrible campaign.

Today McCain said he wanted to reinstate the draft. Why would he do that? To start more wars of course. McCain is dangerous and a loose cannon. Graduating 5th from the bottom shows he is not bright. Giving him guns and bombs is exactly the wrong thing to do.

McCain wants to go to war against Russia.

McCain wants to stay a hundred years in Iraq.

McCain wants to attack Iran.

McCain's visit to South America was no fluke. Be careful Chavez.

The next think you know, McCain will want to "finish the war" in Viet Nam.

Evangelicals don't care. They only worry about the dangerous gays and abortion. No wonder McCain is against abortion. He needs cannon fodder. Please, use the evangelicals. They deserve it.

So, what was Obama's response to this???? NOTHING. YOU GOT IT. OBAMA HAS SAID NOTHING.

Another military hospital has shown up covered with black mold. McCain has voted over and over against funding Military Hospitals For the military.

McCain received a grade of D from the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America
McCain received a 20 percent vote rating from the Disabled Veterans of America

And what has Obama said about any of this???? NOT A FUCKING THING!!!!

I'm really starting to feel depressed about Obama. Instead of standing up for the troops, Obama stands up with a puffy, quivering lip and says "I love my country, stop talking mean".

WELL SIR, YOU CAN START BY PROTECTING THE TROOPS. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? GROW A PAIR.

By deanrddAugust 20, 2008 - 8:03pm

Obama HAS a pair

He also has civility. I know it may be a foreign concept, but do try to keep up.

As for standing up for the troop: he called for a pullout. That's good enough for me.

This election, the choice is simple: Obama as FDR, or McCain as harbinger of a downbeat cyberpunk. Take your pick.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

By wrenchboyAugust 20, 2008 - 8:34pm

I could be wrong, BUT...


I think this is a "rope-a-dope" strategy.

I think they are laying back and letting McCain punch himself tired. The attacks McCain uses today will have less impact later... when it will really matter.

Timing is everything and people have short memories. I think you will see Obama counter-punch without mercy after the conventions.

He's keeping his powder dry now.

McCain has serious vulnerabilities and Obama HAS A BOATLOAD OF CASH.

I STILL SAY OBAMA IS GOING TO CLEAN THE OLD MAN'S CLOCK.

By A GAugust 21, 2008 - 7:21am

Absolutley

Do you really want him to waste good effort while the Olympics are overshadowing everything?

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 7:31am

If Obama is FDR

does that make McCain Hoover? If McCain wins the presidency and presides over the Second Great Depression can we start calling homeless encampments "McCainvilles" ?

By thaelmann37August 20, 2008 - 8:57pm

at this point

W is all the Hoover I need, but if McCain gets in, I think he will earn that Hoover nickname, For 7+ years, they have proven than repub economics don't work and they want more time.

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 6:53am

At least one

There has to be at least one troll , that feels like he just got slaped in the face, shakes his head, now I know , now i know what they mean when the republicans say tax breaks, And it has nothing to do with me,

By getmad54August 20, 2008 - 10:04pm

Nothing to do with any of us

Which is exactly what none of them gets. Even our trolls are too dense to understand that they are NOT part of the top 2%. But they have been bitch-slapped here so consistently they know they can't win on this. Sooner or later one will come by to try to change the subject, but that's it.

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 6:58am

McCain stated he couldn't remember how many houses he had.

Must be nice to be born and/ or marry into all that priveledge.
And they call Obama an elitist.

By thaelmann37August 21, 2008 - 9:49am

Yeah.


According to McCain, If your annual salary is $4,900,000 you are NOT rich, you're middle-class.

Who says McLame is out of touch with average Americans?

By A GAugust 21, 2008 - 10:06am

I don't get it...a refundable tax credit *is* welfare...

Refundable tax credits are by no means the same as a tax cut, and their purpose is to be an alternative to welfare in many cases, i.e. the earned income credit. This is universally understood. For him to say that he "didn't see this one coming" is quite disingenuous, unless he is truly that ignorant.

Then to imply that tax cuts for the rich are somehow also welfare makes zero sense. If you pay $30,000 a year in taxes, and then thanks to a tax cut only pay $25,000 of *your own* money, how is that welfare?? You have the right to the fruits of your labor, do you not?

Before the income tax was instituted, Americans had the highest standard of living in the world, meaning that most people *did not need* welfare. Plus, we did (and still do, well, except for Democrats) have very high rates of generosity as far as donating to charity. Low/no taxes is very good for the economy which means everyone benefits...even JFK understood this!!

And I am one of the people that will benefit from these "tax cuts" FYI.

By austrianeconomistAugust 21, 2008 - 5:57pm

sigh

You know things are getting bad when the libertarians show up.

They've no education in history, economics, civics, or logic.

Sigh.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

By wrenchboyAugust 21, 2008 - 7:42pm

The bottom line here

is that we're arguing about the wrong thing. The point is not who deserves it, the point is what will move the economy forward best. On that point, there is no question. Trickle down does not work. Put the money in the hands of working people and they will spend every dime.

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 9:15pm

The reason that the working

The reason that the working class spend every dime, is that the working class has NO cash margin, no savings margin, and very little hope of getting means to either.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

By wrenchboyAugust 21, 2008 - 9:43pm

right

and therefore every dime goes into the economy. every worker buys a sixpack and the liquor store owner hires another clerk and buys a new refrig. the distributor updates his trucks. the brewer puts on another shift, the farmer plants another acre of barley and all THEIR new employees go out and buy a sixpack. repeat!

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 9:54pm

Dude,

I'm not arguing with you.
Hell, I say with build it up to a 7 thou/year stimulus package.

instead of a measley one thou bush-begs-forbearence-bribe, let's go big or go home.

give me lever, and a place to stand...

By wrenchboyAugust 21, 2008 - 10:36pm

I'm

with you.

By gt6August 21, 2008 - 10:41pm

No need for it

If you think you need a stimulus check, who do you think is going to pay for it.

By gkmtruckerAugust 23, 2008 - 3:42pm

It will be offset

by increaseson the millionaires, as opposed to McCain who would give those millionaires even MORE tax breaks and send the bill to us.

But the important thing is that the Obama plan will move the econmy forward and the last 7 years have proven that the McCain plan WON'T.

By gt6August 23, 2008 - 3:59pm

tax breaks

What tax breaks.

By gkmtruckerAugust 23, 2008 - 4:38pm

Tax breaks

the 4.4% tax break that McCain's plan proposes for those making more than 2.8 million a year ON TOP of the breaks given over the past 7 years by Bush.

Check out SJI's post at the bottom of the open thread for a full breakdown of the two plans. My taxes go down more under Obama's plan as I'm sure yours will too.

By gt6August 23, 2008 - 4:57pm

tax breaks

So when I stop to fill my tanks in the truck that brings you the products you need to live on, the 10 cent more tax that I can't pass on like all the other tax he want's to put on me. What about the Millionaire that has given jobs in his home with benefits to the 6 poeple plus my brother and he also pays all of their taxs.

By gkmtruckerAugust 23, 2008 - 5:39pm

The price of gas has proven

to be a factor of demand and demand only. There was NO cost increase that brought prices to the $4.00+ level and there was no cost decrease bringing it down now. The oil companies charge according to what people are willing to pay at the pump. An increase in the tax will affect the bottom lines at Exxon and Chevron but not yours. Yours will be affected because, tax or no tax, the oil companies can get away with what they are charging. At least if the oil companies are taxed, that money does not have to come from another source.

It has been republican leadership and Republican policies that took gas from a little over a dollar to the current 4. And your moaning about a dime?

By gt6August 23, 2008 - 5:50pm

Proven price

It is the stock market that sets the price. Big oil has to pay what the speculators charge. The dime as you call it times 300 gallons a day adds up. But when the price went up and not everyone filled up. The Dems want to add that 10cents to make up what they are not getting.

By gkmtruckerAugust 23, 2008 - 9:38pm

that effects the cost to the supplier

but the cost at the pump is the suppliers call. Once upon a time the two were connected, but with the current TRUST of colluding oil suppliers, the supply is regulated to maintain demand at its maximum level. prices have risen until the public is either unable or unwilling to pay more. Cost is no longer a factor. Hence the record (not just in the industry but for all time) profits of Exxon mobile for the last year and change.

By gt6August 23, 2008 - 10:07pm

More oil effcts

When another country that produce oil for export tells the world it had some problem and it is only going to pump 85% of it's curent output, not just New York, but the stock markets around the Globe sets a price. When the price went over $100.00, People needed to blame some one. They tryed to put it on the Repulicans and as toy put it, the leadership. But the House speaker with all the cntrol that she has, said we now have to blame BP, Exxon, and the rest for making 7% profit. As oil climed even higher, Others woke up and said it was the speculators. It has always been supply and demand. But when you but on more and more regulations, plus higher tax rates for fuel and gas, and not even try to get our own. When a lawer makes a 30-33% profit, no one says anything.Or the man that cuts your grass can make 65%, I beleive that we should take away the tax brakes from big oil, but we should also take them away from everyone elles. Leave it up to free enterprise to come up with the salution. It will get done quicker than letting the Goverment do it. I can't think of one Goverment program that realy works and has not cost us anything.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 8:35am

That 7%

profit comparison is just BS. You can't compare a small business where the "profit" is based largely on the man's own work to an industrial multinational that can right off BILLIONs. You are equating charging for labor with profit on investment. Your returns figures are grossly inflated because you give no value to the LABOR.

The oil companies are making more money than any corporation in HISTORY and that is a fact. Once Bush invaded Iraq, the flow of oil has been restricted to the point where the oil Co.s can maintain their high prices. As long as prices are as high as they are, the cost has no effect on the price it is ENTIRELY demand driven. If the price were to go back to a dollar, I wish the tax would go up by a dollar to help curb demand and get us off our addiction to imported oil. As long as we are paying the middle east for our oil, we are funding AQ and the rest. Not to mention the damage to our balance of trade and debt.

Over the last few years, the fed has been in a rush to privatize everything. It is the real goal of the Neocon. The one thing they have proven in the process is that private enterprise IS NOT THE ANSWER to a more efficient government. Katrina was largely a failure of privatized government, so was Walter Reade. There are more contracters in Iraq than soldiers and on average, they cost 3 times as much. Privatization is nothing more than a scam to put more of OUR money into the pockets of multinational corporations and bankupt the govcernment so that it is incapable of doing the business of the people.

By gt6August 24, 2008 - 8:56am

Any comparison

Every company started out as one mans dream. Do you think that big oil just started out as big oil. It started in a garage. even Amway started out as two friends got together. And noe it is worldwide. The Freightliner truck manf. came from one mans dream of building a truck to his and the drivers that he employed specs. But then the as yopu put it. LABOR wanted him to share more of his wealth and now Consalidated Freight is no more. Can you tell me how many big and small trucking firms have gone under this year alone because of higher fule costs and labor cost. And if fuel and gas would drop to $1.00, we would not need to raise any tax because everyone could aford it again. We don't need any more tax. We need less and stop spending on wastefull crap. If you want to quit giveing any one your money, DRILL HERE AND DRILL NOW. And don't give me anrthing about ANWAR and how prestine it is. It is a waste land where the oil is and with all the oil that just releases from the floor bed by its self.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 9:30am

First thing you have to do

is learn than taxing and spending are two different things. Raygun tried to say that cutting taxes would cut spending and then he increased spending by more than all previous presidents combined. GWB did the same thing over the last 7 years.

If the taxes on oil increased it would either pay off some of the massive debt that Bush has run up or offset some other tax. To cut taxes and just hope spending will go down is just stupid. We have that debt we have to pay it. You want more drilling? Tell the oil companies to drill on the millions of acres in leases they already have or turn the leases back in. The oil companies want more leases because they want to insure the lack of competition in the future and their continued high profit. They get to hold the lease on their balance sheet as an asset whether they drill or not.

By gt6August 24, 2008 - 10:15am

No Oil

If the re was oil in those leases they would be going after it. And in some of those leases that have the oil, The eviromentalist keep putting in the courts to stop it. If you now that you have oil under your back yard. Just try to get it. It is the same with trying to put up wind driven gen. on top of your house for your own needs. Oh wait, It is not in the best needs of every one. If I spend the money to build it and no one ells wants to help, why should it be shared

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 12:07pm

If there is no oil

they should give the leases back, but they won't. They carry the leases as assets.

By gt6August 24, 2008 - 1:08pm

I researched this so-called 10 cent federal tax increase.


I could find virtually nothing on it. Only a vague reference in a single FoxNews "article" regarding options to deal with the Highway Trust Fund deficits. The "article" is without specifics.

The Highway trust fund is grossly underfunded and getting worse by the day. Meanwhile, our highway infrastructure is collapsing under our wheels.

Federal fuel taxes have remained stagnant for decades while highway construction costs have soared.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

WE'RE OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS, MR. TRUCKER!

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/carls064/freealonzo/BridgeCollapse1.jpg

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 8:44am

Need fixing

Quit taking the money out nad spending it on dog parks, and useless pet projects. Let the money do what it is intended to be for.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 8:58am

That's your suggestion??


Our nationwide highway system is falling apart because of money wasted on dog parks??

Man... You've GOT to be Contarded to think like that.

Last year's highway budget was 300 Billion... You're going to need a bigger dog park... Maybe you could abolish the Department of Education and cease all federal education funds... Contards like that sort of thing... Or those stupid NASA projects like the probe that just found oceans of liquid natural gas among Saturns Moons and the Hubble Space Telescope that was instrumental in nailing down the age of the universe and, most amazingly, discovering "dark energy" and the ultimate fate of the Universe... PRETTY NEAT TRICK, HUH?!

You need to face facts. Your beloved Republican leaders have sold this country right out from under you. WE ARE IN DEEP DOO-DOO and poor people and social programs are not the cause.

Hurting poor people and gutting the social programs, social CONTRACTS between "WE THE PEOPLE" and our government (ourselves), that bind us together as a people. will NOT solve these problems any more than off-shore drilling will affect the global price of oil.

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 9:53am

A real big dog park

The dog park is just one of many wastefull tax dollars being spent. As for schools, what about my property tax. Too much spending is the problem. I still have not seen any goverment program that has ever worked. And anyone that has helped me with out digging into my pockets. Why can't I keep more of what I bring home. I am hurting too but I keep going. I don't just give up and say, I will let the government take over my life.I never said that all social programs were bad, If they can't even ballace a budget or run 5 resturants with out a baillout. I don't want them to run mine or your life. I also think you are a smart person. But if we drill our own oil anywere we can to reduce our need from any other country, the cost will come down because the suply will be up. Take away the dog park, the bridge to nowere, and the rest of the BS projects and use it to find the alternetives. We need to do all we can to become energy independant. Wind, solar, nuke, hydro elctric dams, I am prowd to be an American and the one thing Mr. Obama is right on, We could be better. But get the Government out of the way and let us work.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 10:26am

Hey, I'm on your side...

... assuming you actually are a typical trucker and earn less than $250,000 a year, OBAMA WILL LOWER YOUR TAXES, NOT RAISE THEM.

I would think you would be more concerned about the S&L Bailout, the bailouts of Fanny Mae Freddie Mac AND THE UNPRECEDENTED MOVE TO ALLOW NON-BANK ENTITIES TO DRAW ON THE FEDERAL RESERVE... IT'S NUTS!

Dude, you're being screwed six ways to sunday and you can't even figure out whose dick it is.

Wise up. Get with the program. Time to make government work for YOU instead of a few hundred thousand greedy crooks who crap in solid gold toilets while you try to make ends meet.

Haven't you ever wondered why the productivity of American workers has gone up and up for decades yet wages remain stagnant?... Where the hell do you think all that money is going?

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 11:31am

1999 c120 Centry

I don't want any more government. That is part of the problem. Look into OOIDA or The Truckers Report .com. If the government wants to be so fair, Why havn't they, And don't tell me about it is all the just Bushs fault. Or just some failed policy.It is both sides. If health care was so impotant to them, Why haven't they been working on all along. How comes it only comes out every 4 years. It is just not in Washington. Take a look at Michigan and where did all the fuel tax go. I do belive that they should be able to fail on there own. I am not out aksing for any hand outs. I am doing it on my own.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 11:56am

If your house was on fire...

Would you tell the fire department to keep driving because you, being the rugged individualist you are, were going to put out the fire on your own?

What exactly do you see as the proper role of government?

My guess is that you love everything about government that benefits YOU directly and hate everything else.

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 12:03pm

To much goernment

I did not say to get rid of it. We just need less of it. We can sit here and say what if all day long. What if the departmant was a volunter dept. Not all are paid by the government. What if the ditch was working just fine untill the government came in to improve it and now the water backs up into the yard because some down the line could not ceep there part clean and said we will just let the county fix it.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 12:21pm

There is one thing taht is always worse than a government progra

and that is a corporate take over of a government function. Corporations are bureaucracies just like government and just as bloated. If they do the same job, they spend the same money or trim a few dollars off the pay to the employees doing all the work and then they spend all of the savings on bonuses and salaries for the execs and STILL have to show a profit for the stockholders.

The Oil companies have millions of acres in leases they are not drilling now. What makes you think they will ever allow the supply to increase to the point that it brings down the price. They make more money NOT drilling.

By gt6August 24, 2008 - 11:33am

Time to go back to work

Well boys it's been fun. I have to get out on the road to move American goods to you. So much more to debate but I wont be back for a week. I have to filler up make big oil even richer and the City, State , and the country.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 12:55pm

Demand? I don't think so. I

Demand? I don't think so. I think it's been a factor of price fixing and collusion. Demand had little do do with it, and supply had even less so.
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." Dwight Eisenhower

By MichtouAugust 27, 2008 - 10:05pm

Oh yes, those poor exploited wealthy people.


Your millionaire typically pays about 11-12% in taxes. The corporation he uses to avoid his responsibilities as a member of this society may pay NONE.

Further, I haven't a clue what you're talking about with your imaginary 10 cent tax increase on gasoline or diesel. I haven't heard either candidate suggest anything like that. And even if it DID exist, nobody is preventing you from passing it on BUT YOU.

You're so full of shit, I can smell you from here.

P.S. The notion that a wealthy person would voluntarily pay OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES is laughable.

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 8:18am

I see your back to name clling

When you say thet I am full of it, You must get all your news from CNN. It was well broadcasted back in May that the house was talking about raising the per gallon 10 cents because of low infrastucture funds. And it is still on the table. And when it can't be passed on, because there are so many cut throat companies out there with so many no speeking, Mexicans, Bosnians, Well, do the math. And yes he pays thier tax and health.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 8:54am

Couple things, Contard.


1) Yes, an increase in fuel taxes is on the table... along with a LONG list of other proposals. I've already pointed out how fuel taxes are artificially LOW because they were never indexed to the actual COST of highway construction and maintenance. I'm not saying I endorse the idea, just that it is only one of MANY ideas that may be incorporated into a bi-partisan solution.

BY THE WAY, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THESE HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION JOBS ARE ONE OF THE FEW JOBS YOU CONTARDS CAN'T SHIP OVERSEAS.

2) "it can't be passed on, because there are so many cut throat companies out there... Hmmm... Sounds like a personal problem to me. This is JUST what you contards wanted. Unregulated, lassaize-faire, COWBOY capitalism that allows corporations to act like COMMON CRIMINALS.

You made your bed... Now lie in it.

3) "And yes he pays thier (sic) tax and health.... OH REALLY?... You tryin' to tell me this guy's paying other people's INCOME TAXES??

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

He may be, in fact he MUST be paying disability insurance and any federally mandated contributions, but those are HIS taxes... And I'll tell you something else, If we had single payer universal health insurance, HE'D PAY NOTHING for their health insurance and we'de ALL be paying OVER 30% LESS FOR HEALTH CARE AS A NATION.

... fucking Contards.

By A GAugust 24, 2008 - 10:11am

Why the name calling

Why do you have to start calling names when something will not meet what you think is right. Is it so har for you to think that someone cares enough to care about others and give them a good job, good pay, and help out in more ways the others. I don't want any universal health care. I pay for my own. Why do you want me to pay for yours. I work hard for my money. By the way, How much in total dollars did you pay in to the IRS this year. Don't for get that it was your Jimmy Carter that deregulated trucking so he could get his product to the market cheaper and then it was your Clinton that hurt it even more with opening up more with Mexico and putting more regs. on us so we can't make a good living. And it also opened up the door for unscrupules brokers who steel from the fuel surcharges when they don/t even buy the fuel. Why didn't the Dems put the same regs on them like they put on us.

By gkmtruckerAugust 24, 2008 - 11:08am

Oh no.

This guy has plenty of education in economics.

I've got his number.

I'm exploring what his grand-daddy might have been up to in 1940.

Maybe 'austrianeconomist' would like to elighten us, and share a few of his grandfather's stories of The Great War.

====================

If he hangs around long enough for me to find the time, I'll ream him a new asshole.

Conflating definitions of "welfare" and "tax cuts" and tax credits" is JUST the kind of class-warfare SOPHISTRY that has decieved middle-class Americans for a generation... Decieved them to the point that they have idolized the very people that have picked their pockets and sold them down the river.

The cold-hard realities of the economic exploitation of our nation and people since 1980 are all too real to obfuscate with mere smoke and mirrors... Welcome to the information age, Kraut!

Fuck this guy. He's not even a goddamned citizen.

Just another global-corporate vampire that views average Americans, people like you and me, as just so many MARKS to be exploited.

By A GAugust 22, 2008 - 2:18pm

Change my Butt

Why is it everytime a Lib. has to revert to name calling when it dosn't fit what they think is right in their mind. Seven to Ten years, What will be the price then. I don't have a problem about trying new fuels, but untill we can aford them, well think about it. We can all come together on the problem but don't tax me to death to get there. When you say that MaCain took money from big oil, Obabma took more. Big oil can't donate. It has to come from individuals, and Mr Obama has received more. So get the facts right please. Oh Ya! Change, From my pocket to them who don't want to work and live off the rest.

By gkmtruckerAugust 23, 2008 - 3:28pm

You have to admit gkm was being pretty friggin' restrained

compared to the usual run of right wing loonies we get in here.
But that romatic crap about some guy building a large corporation on his own just isn't true. He will make most of his money off of the surplus value of his employee's labor and by not paying his fair share of taxes.
I think the displays of quick- temper you see in here gkm comes from the fact that it is very frustrating to have to explain this over and over again to people who are in the same class as you but actively support those who are taking away everything workers have fought and sometimes died for over the last 200 years.
Anyway, I am willing to cut you some slack 'cause you made an attempt to be polite.

By thaelmann37August 27, 2008 - 10:14am

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