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The Thom Hartmann Program - July 31

By Louise Hartmann

 

Guest: Michael Chapman Managing Editor www.cnsnews.com Topic: Thom and Conservative Michael Chapman debate - Will a minimum wage help or hurt the economy?

 

Guest: Tom Hayden www.tomhayden.com Topic: Thom goes in-depth with activist Tom Hayden about the future of activism.

 

Guest: Jeff Golimowski www.cnsnews.com Topic: Outsourcing a defense contract? to - BAE Systems - who is under investigation by the Justice Department for allegedly paying more than $2 billion in bribes to Saudi officials in a successful effort to win a contract to supply fighter jets to the Saudi Air Force.

 

That and your calls right here on The Thom Hartmann Program - Fair and Slightly Unbalanced

Comments

(26)

Roberts' Seizure

So I've heard that Justice Roberts has assured Bush that he can still do his job. Why? The Supreme Court isn't answerable to the executive branch at all. Is Roberts just letting Bush know that the neo-con brainwashing hasn't worn off and he'll still do Bush's bidding?

There was something about

There was something about the chief supreme court hearing cases against the president -- i.e. Bush is still protected by his nominating Roberts into that position.

Wow

I still find it endlessly entertaining to listen to people who still worship at the altar of supply-side, Ayn Rand, Thomas Friedman nonsense. Especially the way that they have a tendency to act like our choices are laissez-faire or Marxism-Leninism. It's like listening to the head of the flat-earth society after Columbus got home.

Chapman

 the whole more money in the hands of the rich equals more investement argument is true only during periods where capital is tight. Which has not been the case. If anything there has been capital looking for ideas not ideas looking for capital

Can we have government without corruption?

Everyone knows "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Given the fact that this knowledge is universal, what chances do we have for an uncorrupted government? My guess is that the chances are few at best.

Reading the papers this morning on the FBI raid on Alaska Senator Ted Stevens' House yesterday, searching for information concerning bribery, including a lavish refurnishing of his home, I recalled him as the man who promoted the "bridge to nowhere" (which, according to recent reports, will be built despite protests). As the former Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, he had one of the most powerful positions in Congress (and still has a lot of power even after the Democrats took over the Senate). He oversaw almost 1 trillion bucks in spending, a lot critical to Alaska, if not of real necessity to US taxpayers.

Stevens is an 83 year old man and has been in office 24 years. As such he is an elder statesman. But like so many of our long-term politicians, in both parties, the rise to power often has emphasized greed over wisdom.

It is this natural affinity to the corruption of power that has given us a lobbyist industry to prey on it. As I understand it there are five times the number of lobbyists than there are Congressfolks (indeed, many of them are former Senators and Representatives!), and they form a wall between the elected officials and the electorate.

The system, then, provides the incentive for corruption.

Take earmarks... the way a legislator adds his or her private projects to a bill after debate has ceased, but before it is approved. When Pelosi and Hoyer took over the House, they were clear that they would remove or reduce earmarks. Then they became noticeably silent about the situation, finally trying to justify a new way of controlling them. Yeah. Sure.

Once in power, the tendency toward corruption seems to start dropping roots... almost unnoticed at first, then, when it is too late, perfectly clear.

If the corporate institutions that control the lobbies thought there was a better way to get what they wanted, things would perhaps change. But why would they kill a successful thing? The pharmaceutical lobby alone is a good example... we pay the largest prices in the world for prescription drugs (unless we are under the VA), even if we are on Medicare. Why? Because lobbyists won... and actually wrote the laws (and provided jobs for our legislators like Tauzin who now make six- and seven-figure incomes from the business.)

Every election we hear candidates run on platforms which are against corruption. We retain our hopes. We believe them. And, almost invariably, we get screwed.

If this could change, I know we would all work for it. But it seems unlikely.

Under The LobsterScope

conservative economic philosophy

Thom is exactly right. Ronald Reagan used the language game to repackage the Milton Friedman economic theory on steroids, which is nothing more than trickle down economics. What Reagan did was to make greed good(the me generation), and make it morally acceptable to cast a vast portion of our society away to poverty. Mr. Chapman's argument is hollow at best. What the conservatives used to say in public was every man for himself. They found out that model didn't sell in America, so they repackaged the way they pitched their theories. They began to call it Jobs and Growth economic policy. Keep the money in the hands of the capitalists and they would make sure we had a full employment economy that provided good paying jobs for the public. Well, after the past 26 years of this economic policy, save a few admirable years from Clinton, we now have tried it their way, and it does not work. After the tax cuts on steroids from the Bushes and Reagan, and the disastrous trade policies of all of the Presidents over the past 26 years, America is in its worst fiscal crisis since the Great Depression, which by the way was the last time conservative economic policy was in place.

At what point do we turn the page again on this philosophy of conservativism and move back to progressive/liberal policies to restore America to its economic greatness, as well as it moral greatness. It is harder to change today due to the structural impediments to overcome, such as the media, the mindset of the American people, and the acquiescence of the Democratic party. This is the true battle of our generation, not this phony War on Terror. By the way Thom, did you catch Prime Minister's statement of terrorism being battled as a crime issue. He will not call it a War on Terror, as his predecessor did. Other than that, looks like full steam ahead with Bush and Brown, as it was with Blair.

Is Chapmann really that closed minded?

He argues the government can't determine what wage is necessary to support a family in this country when by god they can determine what wage will keep you in poverty.  He advocates keeping family's in poverty, turning the work force into slave labor making it impossible to get out of poverty.  He would have us believe that billionaires and millionaires would suddenly develop a conscious and pay people more if they do better work when history proves they never have.  In fact they do just the opposite, keeping "expenses" at the lowest rate possible. making it necessary to work at least two jobs just to survive.  Just watch...most businesses will use the increased wage as a reason to raise the cost of their products keeping profits as high as possible.  These people will never be able to regulate their own greed...ever.  The government needs to do it for them.  They would use $100 bills to light cigars for each other rather than give it to their workers.  Look at how many have outsourced making products or providing services to foreign countries just to pay slave wages to increase their own profits.  They are driven by greed.  They don't need to make so much profit at the expense keeping others in poverty.  After the first billion, how much more money do you need for an excellent qaulity of life.  Chapman start calling for us to go live in east berlin etc when they are the creators of such states to begin with.

THE MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T DETERMINE WHAT IT TAKES TO RAISE A FAMILY, ONLY WHAT WILL KEEP YOU F ROM LIVING IN POVERTY...THE LOWEST OF POVERTY. 

Completely OFF TOPIC Jokes

Things are tough all over and sometimes laughter helps alleviate the pain, so here are two for your consideration:

"Apple Computer announced today that it has
developed a computer chip that can store and play high
fidelity music in women's breast implants.

The iTit will cost $499 or $599 depending on speaker size.

This is considered to be a major breakthrough because
women have always complained about men staring at
their breasts and not listening to them."

And from the world of Professional Sports:

"NBA official admitted today that they should have known that something was amiss when they received reports about disgraced referee Tim Donaghy officiating games in the off-season for the Harlem Globe Trotters, games in which the Globe Trotters would consistently not beat the spread."

I'll be here all the week, please make sure to try the veal... 

:coolsmirk: 

~Nyc Alberts, Digital Components
I'd Rather Be A Matin' Than A Hatin'

The real reason Roberts fell

he tilted too far to the right.

Sounds like another 'toy'

Sounds like another 'toy' that men will be begging women for!   LOL!

I'm hard of hearing

can I turn up the volumn.

Oversight

We've seen the problems caused when there is a lack of oversight in the three branches of government. Congress hasn't been doing its job watching over the executive branch. Now my question is this. Who is supposed to provide oversight of Congress? Who is supposed to clamp down on all these unnecessary earmarks, junkets, and just plain stupid legislation? We the people? Yeah, right. We don't have the power or the access to the information to hold them accountable except for elections. And what about the Courts? Who watches over them? Isn't it about time we reexamined the Constitution and gave it a 21th century upgrade? If not now, when?

Yes!  In addition, some of

Yes!  In addition, some of the laws that they are breaking have no penalty attached!  What should be done about that?   Like the emails missing, using the wrong server to hide illegal actions, not preserving records or writing things down or going to the FISA court.  Then we have all of these departments, branches and agencies being asked to work for the PARTY first!  Maybe we need more offices like the GAO which are non-partisan and give them more power of oversight, providing a special prosecutor and trying these cases! 

    

Notes On How Dems Can Easily Lose In 2008

From a recent correspondence.

It's based on Al Gore's new book "The Attack On Reason" and Dr. Robert Altemeyer's must read on-line, non-fiction, book "The Authoritarians" that John Dean based his latest book, "Conservatives Without Conscience" on:

..... 

Here are the pieces of the jig-saw puzzle:

1. One third of the electorate will always vote Authoritarian, that's a hard, fast, cardinal rule.
2  Two thirds of all people can't do what you and I do, which is think abstractly. Average IQ of the US, population, by definition, is 100 IQ points
3. Most people don't vote, turnout was 40% in 2006, 60% in 2004
4. People, in general, are too distracted to pay attention to matters directly concerning them
5. The Public Schools have been decimated, starting under Reagan, with Busch finishing the job, with an assist from the Evangelicals
6. The bulk of the monies raised for the General Election will be spent on 30 second negative attack ads in October 2008.
7. Nothing of substance will be discussed during this Election Cycle, it will all be trivial stories and sound bites
8. Corporate Media has *zero* obligation or responsibility to report the "news".
By law, and statute, the *only* responsibility they have is to generate profits for their shareholders
9. Corporate Media is driven by ratings which means they will tailor their content to the greatest number of people, which is the 2/3rds that can not think abstractly.

In narrative form, the story goes like this....

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American Public."

It's a given that between 30-35% of all voters will by default vote for the most Authoritarian candidate, no matter who he is, (Evangelicals can make all the noise they want about Ghouliani, but on Election Day they will hold their noses and vote for him, this is why the Father Ted Haggard bust last year was more important and significant than the Mark Foley case), so to game the present system and get to a 50.0001% majority, of the popular vote, (Herr Busch won by 50.7% in 2004), you only need to focus on winning between around 15 to 20 + % of the popular vote.

Add into the mix our Electoral College system, and you don't even need to win the popular vote, which is why 'Battle Ground' States like FL and OH come into play, as they have in the last two Presidential Elections.

Most people, two thirds of them, by default, aren't capable of abstract thinking.

Amplify that weakness by teaching, say Creationism, in the schools, and you destroy among the populace what little remaining ability there is to think critically.

The 60%, at most, of eligible voters, that will vote in 2008, the two thirds of them that can not think critically will be most susceptible to the billion plus dollars of attack ads that will run on Corporate Media TV in October of 2008.

These ads will sway about 10 to 12% of these voters to vote Republican.

To make up the difference, cage a few votes in places like OH and FL, rig a few machines, and use some other under-handed tactics, and that puts you right over the top, again, just like it did in 2004.

Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy is awesome, but Corporate Media has a much bigger mega-phone than any grassroots, on the ground, organization can hope to have.

How many TV satellites does  Rupert Murdoch's Fox News have at its disposal?

How many does the Democratic National Committee?

The bulk of the 2008 Multi-Billion War Chest is going to be spent on Attack Ads On TV in October of 2008 and it's going to drown out a *lot* of Dean's work.

Grim enough for you?

This is the strategy Karl Rove has been using...

.....

:sick: :sick: :sick: 

~Nyc Alberts, Digital Components
I'd Rather Be A Matin' Than A Hatin'

Peace All!

I finally get to sit and listen to Thom for a bit. We have imported a container of solar water heaters. So nice that the technology to make them was exported to China. Now as a "acting" capitalist they must be sold.

I tell people that I am not trying to save the world for them, rather for their grandchildren.

Thank the cloud being that Progressives are able to multi-task... save the world, the constitution, read Screwed (by Thom Hartmann) and still have time to blog!

Cui bono
==> Insert a witty comment here <==
Get the News at http://www.theaera.blogspot.com
Maron Double Master Blogger #7

19 Things I never want to hear on KPOJ again

I love AA and your show.  My TSL is huge, hours per day.  That is why I never want to hear these 19 things again.

1.  The following is a message from Brutus...
2.  Suddenly, mom dropped the forks.
3.  Grunt, if you have to.
4.  Fire breathing dragon.
5.  I'm General Colin Powel, and I don't believe in giving up.
6.  I would have been a statistic.
7.  Hi, it's mom.  Less chatting, mmmore homework.
8.  Issues.  I-S-S-U-E-S.
9.  But Dreadylocks likes to play cool games at...
10. ...and I stopped eating the fried stuff.
11. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
12. Oh my gosh, his helmet is too big!
13. Apathy is lethal.
14. That's 'Biker Babe' to you, Missy.
15. Just strap it to the roof of the car.
16. Just as my star was rising...
17. What!  I'll put the fear into that kid!
18. Staying in touch, the anti-drug.
19. We don't eat sand.

 I don't mind commercials at all, but these PSA's are driving me bats.  The adoption one (#3) I've been hearing several times a day since 2004.

RE: 19 Things I never want to hear on KPOJ again

Sounds like a contest suggestion. The person who can make the most coherent and humorous story using these phrases and adding as few other words as possible would win.

Cui bono
==> Insert a witty comment here <==
Get the News at http://www.theaera.blogspot.com
Maron Double Master Blogger #7

The Cheney threat

No one is mentioning an important key factor......What if something happens to Bush.  What happens, God forbid, if he is assassinated in office  making Cheney president.  For the neocons that would be better than a  terrorist attack on a major city.

Cheney would just say..."Oh the hell with congress.  They're cowards.  They're afraid to do what needs to be done!"       So why is this guy still vice president of our nation?  Support HR 333.  Don't take the chance. 

the ascendancy of AAR as a **true JOURNALISTIC Entity** of TRUTH

Layton Posts for Canadians on "US Congress demands transparency in SPP agenda"

:long: Going for Broke: Is the US banking on Canadian Resources?

Credit-based Prosperity - A Currency in Decline: How Dangerous is the Dollar Drop?

:shut: Bancroft family accepts News deal

& for those who don't know WHAT the Dow Jones might BE...
===

Dow Jones and Co. is a business news publisher best known for its flagship newspaper, The Wall Street Journal, and the Dow Jones Industrial Index, whose fluctuating numbers have for decades been the most common shorthand for the state of the stock market. The company was founded in 1882 by Charles Henry Dow, Edward Davis Jones and Charles Milford Bergstresser, who provided subscribers with daily handwritten bulletins of business news.

The company, which is controlled by members of the Bancroft family, includes properties like Barron's, the Dow Jones Newswires & Marketwatch.

News about Dow Jones & Company Inc., including commentary & archival articles published in The New York Times.

===

sooo: we're talking about educational materials, financial licensing entities... & a multitude of REPORTING agencies.

(Bear in mind, that the NSA now *controls* SEC rule compliance... )

think about that.

:coolmad: US Fed DA forced to drop "crimes "far worse" than those of Arthur Andersen"

Personal Security, Data & Privacy: U.S. Eyes U.K.'s Surveillance Camera Solution to Security

Basel II: YOUR credit-rating & your GOVERNMENT's credit-rating... will be a *metric* of patriotism... to economic agendas.

...if you let it.

"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"

Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian.com
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
Learn. Think. Believe&Act.
We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid

K Street

We need to get the K Street project down to the size that we can drown it in the bath tub.

American Journalism At Its Finest

I can't wait to wake up in the morning and start my day with The Daily Diary Of The American Dream, Rupert Murdoch's:

THE WALL MYSPACE STREET POST JOURNAL 

 :kiss: :snake: :vampire: :kiss:

~Nyc Alberts, Digital Components
I'd Rather Be A Matin' Than A Hatin'

O'Reilley is not Jet Blue CEO

The reason O'Reilley's attack dogs didn't hound or victimize Jet Blue's CEO is because he doesn't spout out opinions on line or anywhere else about his politics or personal biases.  If the CEO had ever done that it's for sure he would have been dogged by O'Reilly. 

What O'Reilly has done and does do on his show and web site makes him deserving of being outed for the hate filled hypocrite he is.  This is the type of discourse he does to others and then uses his money made from tirades to insulate himself from the same sort of attacks he supposes on his show and web site.  Uses his wealth and position to threaten those who would expose him.  His hypocrisy should "vibrate" in the public shower of opinion, for all to turn around and see. 

Go ahead, take Aug off so Bolton can replace GONZO

Wouldn't that be just swell. If during the recess the shrub put our old UN pal John Bolton in the AG slot that GONZO will be retiring shortly.

BTW:
Once again last night on Olbermann, Alter reiterated the "NON STARTER" that IMPEACHMENT is on the hill, he downplayed the likelihood of a replacement for GONZO being slipped in without confirmation while the DO ZERO congress takes a break after their grueling one night half assed attempt to break one of HUNDREDS of GOP filibusters this year.

And don't tell me they have done some good regarding Walter Reed, or minimum wage that doesn't even keep up with inflation. Dont patronize me with; this is the way congress works BS!!!

THE DEMS ARE STILL A GAGGLE OF INVERTEBRATES THAT CANT PUT ENABLING BLUEDOGS IN THEIR PLACE.

Check out this piece of crap that they SUCCEEDED in getting nowhere on, since it's going to be VETOED by HALLOWEEN:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/adjunctprofs/2007/07/on-july-30-2007.ht...

House Passes Ledbetter Amendment to Title VII, the ADA, ADEA and the Rehabiliation Act of 1973

On July 30, 2007, the House approved H. R. 2831 by a vote of 215-187 which amends Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990, and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 to clarify that a discriminatory compensation decision or other practice that is unlawful under such Acts occurs each time compensation is paid pursuant to the discriminatory compensation decision or other practice, and for other purposes.

This Bill is intended to legislatively over-rule the Supreme Court's decision in Ledbetter v. Goodyear, 550 U.S. __(2007) which I previously discussed here. In Ledbetter, the Supreme Court issued a 5-4 decision holding that the 180/300 day time period to file a charge of discrimination with the EEOC runs from the date the discriminatory decision was initially made as opposed to when the employee actually received her paycheck.

Before this Bill was passed, President Bush indicated that he will veto this legislation. The President's statement is available here. The President strongly oppposes this legislation, reasoning in part:

Meaningful statutes of limitations in these sorts of fact-intensive cases are crucial to the fair administration of justice. The prompt assertion of employment discrimination permits employers to defend against – and allows employees to prove – claims that arise from employment decisions instead of having to litigate claims that are long past. In such cases, evidence often will have been lost, memories will have faded, and witnesses will have moved on.

Moreover, effective statutes of limitations benefit employees by encouraging the prompt discovery, assertion, and resolution of employment discrimination claims so that workplace discrimination can be remedied without delay.

- Mitchell H. Rubinstein

Absolutely right. The DNC chairman Howard Dean...

has stated that the Dems will not be able to accomplish anything untill we get a Democratic president.  He has given up, like the rest of the "blue dogs" and resigned himself to just wait until after the elections because they would never get enough votes to overide a veto.  Same with impeachment...never get enough votes so it's a waste of time.

A coward refuses to fight for important issues unless he is assured victory before he starts.  On impeachment...the votes would come as the corruption comes out and is structured for all to see.  It would also weaken the administration making support for the WH's Iraq policies more difficult to sustain.  It would tie WH hands just enough to prevent them attacking Iran.  It would defend the constitution from further demise and abuse...there is no downside to impeachment except for those who just find it "inconvenient".

On Iraq...Dean's blue dogs have it ass backwards.  It should not be seen that Democrats in the Senate cannot get enough votes to withdraw from Iraq but rather...Republicans in the Senate cannot get enough votes to continue the funding of the Iraq occupation.  

But then what did I expect from someone(Howard Dean) who makes a statement like, "If we withdraw too quickly from Iraq, Al Qaeda would take over the country.  They could...if we don't withdraw slowly, they could take over the country..." WTF?  He states that defunding would just leave the troops "out there" all alone so nobody really wants to be seen as not supporting the troops.  The American people would never go for that.

Supporting the troops means protecting them, not "forcing" them to fight and die for a failed policy policing a civil war and then talk about how brave their sacrifice is.  Bush is the one leaving them out there all alone, using them as hostages to get funding for the war profiteers.  Bush says, "Give me the funding I need or I'll leave them out there to die", and Dean and his blue dogs can't write the checks fast enough.  These Dems are causing the rest of the Dems to lose any respect we might have had for them because , like the republicans, they are showing themselves to be without integrity.

  Right is right and worth the fight regarless if you lose, because you don't really lose when it's right.-@jbacon

Why don't they die???

If corporations claim they should be treated as personages then why don't they act like people and DIE.  Why don't they have a life span like people do and then DIE.  Sure, they have the right to be trated like personages as long as we know someday they will DIE.  What a load of Bull these Corps be.  They should be regulated like children who would make themselves sick on too much candy if left unattended, or throw bottles in the street just to watch them break, or throw down their trash  wherever they happened to be standing.  Yeah, I'll treat them like personages, just let me find  my belt.

Show notes

Tuesday 31 July '07

Today's show notes.

Guest: Michael Chapman, Managing Editor, cnsnews.com, debating on if a minimum wage will hurt or help the economy.

Minimum wages, maximum wages, middle class rant.

Who said, "If any woman ever breathed a word I’ll make her pay so dearly that she’ll wish she’d never been born."?

Guest: Congressman Jay Inslee, who is introducing a resolution requiring the Judiciary Committee to investigate with a view to impeaching Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Transcript.

Guest: Tom Hayden, activist, former California state senator, co-founder of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), author, national co-director of "No More Sweatshops!". Author of "Ending the War in Iraq". He was on the show for a full hour. The future of activism. The Iraq war. He wrote in his book: "I know therefore that we live on borrowed time. We can assume that somewhere in government plans are already prepared for moving our country in a more authoritarian direction at home and an even ore militaristic one abroad, should there be another September 11th scale attack." The Patriot Act is a massive document, it was ready before 9/11.

Thom will be attending several openings of Leonardo DiCaprio's feature-length environmental documentary titled "The 11th Hour", which Thom is in: August 17 in Los Angeles (show live from AM 1150 KTLK), August 20 in NYC (show live from AM 1600 WWRL), August 24 in San Francisco (show live from KQKE, 960AM The Quake), and others. Times and theaters to be announced.

Guest: Jeff Golimowski, CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer - a journalist who is not a conservative, but a moderate to left liberal. BAE Systems (British defense company) lobbying and campaigning. Outsourcing defense contracts.

Guest: Mike Stark of Calling all Wingnuts, who confronted O'Reilly at his home.

Who said, "We will lead an aggressive effort to enroll millions of poor children who are eligible but not signed up for the government's health insurance programmes"?

Comments

(26)