The om Hartmann Program - Feb 25 2008
Hour One - Guest: Kathryn Joyce www.thenation.com/doc/20080303/joyce Topic: Demographic Winter and the Christian Right...Christian conservatives predict a looming catastrophe as birthrates fall in Europe and Muslim immigration rises.
Guest: Larisa Alexandrovna www.rawstory.com Topic: Reaction to CBS 60 Minutes finally airing the Siegelman piece last night
Hour Two - Guest: Paul Shapiro with The Humane Society http://www.hsus.org & Lene Johansen www.cei.org Topic: A rousing 3 way debate - The Politics Behind Beef Recall Revealed
Hour Three - Guest: Al Regnery Topic - His new book - Upstream: The Ascendance of American Conservatism
- February 25, 2008








On Nader's Candidacy
you get what you are willing to defend.
Gee, I wonder what THESE LOBBYISTS DEFEND?
Lobbyists on the ’08 payroll
& who wouldn't have creepy lobbyists snivelling & strutting around their government?
RALPH NADER.
yup. 'you dance with the one who brung ya, " Molly said...
& NADER HAD NOTHING to do with the misery coming home to roost. It was social apathy & propaganda-supported corruption.
"Touched by a Republican": "Prosecutor: Siegelman, Scrushy may be obstructing justice"
:p Blame the Messenger?
at the very least, have the decency to respect a man who has spent decades doing your hard work for you.
When will the US electorate actually vote for itself?
... when they stop letting their corporate media tell them THEY'VE ALREADY WON THE REVOLUTION for UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS.
because somehow, too many people seem to think, 'getting by' in the World means allying themselves with a powerful corporation to protect them from the Big Scary World.
Its a Big Ugly World, because we've no stomach to stand with Determined Pacifism & prevent it.
what's the WORST THING they say about Nader?
that's he's smart & egotistical.
Ah, maybe you're being TOLD THAT? He's smart. & he's confident.
gee, why would they *tell you* he's something negative?
BECAUSE THERE ARE 2 PARTIES & even a corporation can figure out that after you suck one teat dry, you move on to the next...
Three makes it harder to rig the game.
"corruption is why we win"
on Determined Pacifism & "Election Madness" Howard Zinn
BASICALLY? *every corrupt corporation is set against Nader* ...& people are too afraid or propagandized to see it. THUS BOTH parties have vested interest in making his candidacy the solution you'll never have.
~~~
"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"
Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian
Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced
Learn. Think. Believe & Act...
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By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 25, 2008 - 11:54am"Spot On" (a hartmann)
jj Gudat, Thanks Blueberry, I get tired of feeling alone out here!
I voted for Gore, I volunteered for Kerry in three states, and donated; I donated to Edwards, and worked for him; I JUST CAN'T in good consciense, vote for either Hillary or Obama! It's based on the research I've done and what I've learned about both of them, not personality, gender or race.
I don't believe in Thom's idea, that 'elected officials will get in front of the parade'. My experience has been that they'll put up road blocks and detours!
I don't believe you should vote for a candidate, who represents policey, that's against your own best interest! Then after their elected, they claim this mandate! We're all left scratching our heads, saying 'I didn't vote for that'. Great example is the 06' election, we donated and worked for ending the war, and Impeachment! Pelosi, claimed it was for her 100 day thing! Who's screwed???
**Country Before Party**
I've stopped giving to ANY organization, after Move-On in 04' gave 65k to Bill Nelson (one of the 19 that voted FOR cloture on Alito), I don't trust any of them!! I got conned again, by AAR into giving during the 06' push for the majority into giving to what they called, 'Progressive Candidates'; we gave to McClaskey (Mo.), Webb (Va), Casey (Pa.) all won! And then voted like 'Blue-Dogs, with Red Fleas'!!
Yes, I'm ready for a third, and fourth, and fifth! Party!! Instant Run-Off Elections!
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By Andie927February 25, 2008 - 1:26pmcan you feel the OPPRESSION???
Stacy - talking for Lionel, pointed out that 'phony' patriotism is being supported. Wearing pins, stickers and magnets. Losing administrators due to being too open on religion and not forcing christian only agendas.
I tried selling bracelets to support out-reach programs for Vets and those coming home with PTSD. I couldn't sell any. I sent out sites for helmets liners. I sent out sites for VOTEVETS.ORG because of helmet contract being awarded after the company paid a fine for making below quality helmets.
People do not want to 'hear' about the war! The only stuff I receive from friends (other then those I have political dealings with) is the jingoism nationalism stuff. Don't think - just blindly believe!
I must say that Air America, informing people of the war, is a rarity! How scary is that???
The worst day in my life, besides family stuff, was the start of the Iraq attack - Shock & Awe. It has replaced the day President Kennedy died. When I heard the news report - as if it were the Bush outlet speaking only of their agenda - it made me feel as if I had been sucker punched. And it continued. Hours of 'Bushie' reports. That was one of the most awful days in US history.
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By LoreFebruary 25, 2008 - 12:46pmbecause people don't *want to care*
they're too freaking self-centred to want to think or care.
"lalalalalala
Blame the Messenger... I don't want to know...
lalalalalala"
terrifying how easily they just shut it down to avoid the pain of being interested.
"You Can't Make Me": defining culture on the DownSide of PeakOil...
"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"
Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian
Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced
Learn. Think. Believe & Act...
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By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 25, 2008 - 12:50pmNice, Lore. I agree,
jj Gudat, Just read an article in The Populist Progressive newspaper I get, by Jim Hightower.
Tittled: Cashing in on America, it's about a Roger Chapin, " a San Diego business operator with big-name Republican connections" who started up several charities, 'for Veterans'. Except him and his friends got all the money! One being Tommy Franks, who got $100k for 'use of his name'.
Makes you want to vomit, esspecially if you are a disabled vet!
The reasons you state are why I won't watch Katie Curick on CBS. The day (night) there the 'Shock & Awe' started Katie was all excited about how great it was! I awitched stations, and won't allow her face on a TV in my home since! There's nothing Great, or her words: "awesome" about bombing the crap out of a civilian defensless population!
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By Andie927February 25, 2008 - 1:05pmOn Nader's candidacy
I appreciate Thom's comments on this subject.
This is really tiresome. We are adults. We can vote or not vote for whomever we wish. Anyone who wants to run for the Presidency should be able to do so. Voters can do the calculations and decide if they want to "throw their vote away," either on a mainstream candidate that won't make the changes we wish to see or on a third-party candidate who has no chance of winning. The Nader-haters should remember it is the voters who decide where their vote goes.
And don't tell me that Nader tricks people into voting for him; what are any candidate's campaign ads for anyway?
Nader warned us in the late 90s that their was little substantial difference between the major parties and it has been shocking to see how his words have been borne out as the Democrats have caved to or empowered Bush again and again. Nader looks like a prophet. Mike Gravel pointed out in an
interview with Mike Papantonio this weekend that the corporate money that corrupted the Republicans is now flowing to the Democrats. Can we see real change under these circumstances? Will the money corrupt Dems too? Follow the money and look out!
Let him or anyone else run. Let the voters decide. Let the positives and the negatives of each party and each candidate be aired. This is a different time and different calculations may drive our
voting decisions but it's a good thing to have more choices and Democrats are foolish to try again to extinguish the Nader candidacy. The issues that drive it are real and Democrats would be better served to address them. They might thereby gain some votes.
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By ColetteLBFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:15pmThree Cheers!!!
jj Gudat,
I have to pay to hear AirAmerica, on my XM, which I bought into, and pay a monthly fee for, just so I could hear AirAmerica! I's turned OFF! Again. As it has been pretty much for the last two or three weeks! I can't take all the 'Obama this and Obama that, constantly' the jabs at Hillary!
I'm not FOR either of them, but I expected better from Air America, like just a little honestt!
All of Obama's donations have NOT come from small doner's, only 26%! A lot of the rest has come from his BIG Wall Street doners! He was NOT born poor, or even middle-class! Middle-class grandparents don't retire to Hawaii, nor can they afford to send their grandson, to TWO (2) Ivy League Colleges! Obama didn't have an Economic Plan until Feb. 13th!~Why was he running for President before that??
Hillary is NO better! But shouldn't AirAmerica, be telling us the truth about BOTH candidates? Who cares about McCain, is anyone listening to AirAmerica really going to consider voting FOR him??
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By Andie927February 25, 2008 - 1:39pmAAR isn't *available* in Canada on Sirius radio.
seriously.
& not for lack of letters requesting it, either.
Thank G*d for XM.
~~~
"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"
Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian
Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced
Learn. Think. Believe & Act...
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By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:59pm*** APPLAUSE ***
.
.
> > > Human Rights, if you can keep them.
.
.
.
:ohh: but I have to ask again, "whoever convinced Americans that the Revolution for Human Rights was over?
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By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:50pmHip-hip-hurrah! Great post for Nader Principles!
Great!
Nader has been objective about the problem for decades and your point regarding his observations in the 1990s about the two chauvinistic lead parties clarify his dependability of understanding of our system!
We are supposed to vote for REPRESENTATION, and that means voting for someone who's a proponent for our individual principles, needs, best interests, ideals, values and so on. Voting for anything else is detrimental to the whole democratic process and one's own role in it.
===========
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.--Eleanor Roosevelt
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By noraFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:58pmLet's see if I have this STRAIT, Thom; LET THE DYNASTY FIGHT ON
IRRATIONAL EXUBERANCE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT DELUSIONAL.
IT'S ABOUT THE PAYOLA BABY!!!!!!!!!!!
Or, is it fear of losing the over 80+ feminist AAR demographic, Thom? WELL?!!!
THE HARTMANN LOGIC: SEIZE DEFEAT FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY. HIS BIG SHRUM IDEA.
If she stays in then more debate rhetoric will actually move the 87% DINO congress to the left as a result of the populous attention and dialog spawned by more COAL INDUSTRY sponsored beauty pageants where matters like THE OCCUPATION and IMPEACHMENT , etc., are out of bounds.
www.truthdig.com/report/print/20070531_repudiation_not_impeachment
www.airamerica.com/ringoffire/node/191#comment-3900
www.airamerica.com/maddow/node/3211/31538#comment-31538
If the hyena calls it a day, for reasons other than the fact that her personal community property bank account can only stand so much SUCKING SOUND for campaign purposes, then the GOP smear machine will have the opportunity to reverse the O-mentum so the ZIG-ZAG EXPRESS McAncient will become competitive in November.
www.expense-management-services.blogspot.com/2008/02/open-question-if-hi...
The fact that the top players in her campaign cant help BHO while they are committed to her LOST CAUSE, is irrelevant.
The fact that by continuing the conflict between misogynist fence sitters and militant feminists will broaden cultural divisiveness, is irrelevant.
www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/02/is_it_over_1.html#alpha
The fact that the best minds in DEM political WARFARE continuing to develop maneuvers to attack eachother will feed the Rove machine additional dirt that they may not have imagined, is irrelevant.
The fact that 99% of campaign rhetoric NEVER gets implemented, so all the polite mud slinging is just so much hot air, is irrelevant.
The fact that if she actually gets the nomination, the likelihood of a GOP VICTORY is significantly increased, is irrelevant. www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html#alpha
The fact that the public's attention span for politics is finite and would benefit from a hiatus, is irrelevant.
That's why she has to fatten the pockets of media outlets and advertising agencies while NOT conceding her INEVITABLE defeat until just before the convention, where the SUPER DELEGATES will certainly DO THE RIGHT THING.
BRILLIANT!!!!!!!
HERE'S YOUR SIGN:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/Y/c/hillary_rambabe.jpg
www.newscopy.org/images/hillary_tango_1.jpg
www.laughmaine.com/Billary%20Clinton.jpg
BTW:
I agree with the premise that there is increased value of having both Nader and McKinney out there. I just wish they would invest in Palast types to route out the GOP voter disenfranchisement system before it gets get up a full head of steam. www.airamerica.com/lionel/node/185#comment-2268
All of the elections supervisors must be vetteted by the other side and the shrub's court packing judges exposed before they start the INDICTMENT BLITZKRIEG on the DEMS in the countless little races being run at the same time.
Remember U.S. Attorney for New Mexico David Iglesias?
www.gregpalast.com/the-firing-of-new-mexico-attorneydavid-iglesias
www.gregpalast.com/space-invaders-five-million-aliens-for-hillary/?print...
www.gregpalast.com/Podcasting/ThePalastReport/PalastonClout1-11-08.m4a
www.gregpalast.com/give-the-gift-of-impeachment-palast-swag-for-xmas
WHAT ELSE IS NEWS - Bush Holds Up More Than 84 Nominees Over Torture Advocate
On the Senate floor, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) revealed that much of the blame for these stalled nominees lies with the President’s insistence that the torture advocate receive a recess appointment.
According to Reid, in December, he met with the White House and agreed to allow more than 84 of the President’s nominees to go through. Bush, however, insisted that unless the Senate agreed to Bradbury’s recess appointment, “he wouldn’t make a deal.� “It’s Brabury, or nobody,� Bush reportedly told Reid.
www.thinkprogress.org/2008/02/07/bush-brabury-reid
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gzzwHNfZgZK6luaPjSFcvijKUVNAD8ULNA500
Horton on 60 Minutes Segment of DOJ Political Prosecution
www.rawstory.com/news/2007/timeline_don_siegelman_1126.htm
Off the Air in Alabama Feb 25, 2008 www.malcontends.blogspot.com/2008/02/horton-on-60-minutes-segment-of-doj...
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By SingSingFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:29pmhow about checking every cow like other countries?
Why do Republicans and some Democrats want us to be like third world nations???
Why the US doesn't have testing of all cattle shows the power of the beef industry.
This gives no say to citizens --- again, it is the corporatocracy that has the power.
That is why CEO's are in court answering questions about how all the poisons are getting into ingredients for pet food, human food and medicine.
Privitization means supporting the unlawful processes. Not having visibility, oversight, or accountability on the the watchers as well as the corporations being watched. Paying more and getting much less.
Fleecing the treasury.
American citizens paying to be told to 'bend over'!
It is OUR money that is being spent on these crimes.
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By LoreFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:31pmre Lore @ 1:31 -- Maybe because the Bush Cabal...
...embraces "depopulation" of the masses in ll its forms.
-----
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.--Eleanor Roosevelt
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By noraFebruary 25, 2008 - 5:33pmCBS's 60 Minutes omissions in Siegelman injustice...
Did anyone else notice the three major omissions in the 60 Minutes coverage of the former Democratic Governor Don Siegelman story? These omissions were biggies that make Siegelman's incarceration more clearly the incarceration of a POLITICAL PRISONER!
Maybe you may have noted even more omisions than this, but here are the three I noticed:
1/ 60 Minutes failed to clarify that the election won by Siegelman was somehow finessed into a win for his opponent -- and the challenger Siegelman's right to have a proper recount was corrupted.
2/ Siegelman's incarceration has included being shifted in communicado from one jail/prison to another without his lawyer's or family's knowledge of his whereabouts.
3/ Siegelman's APPEAL has been undermined by the Alabama federal and state authorities who refuse to release the trial's documents in a timely fashion.
I don't consider these small oversights on such a case.
And CBS's 60 Minutes cannot claim lack of time, because I've seen longer segments on music, sports, and sleezy crime personalities.
So what's up? Was the story for Siegelman made weaker on purpose, by plan, under pressure? What gives? What's the story behind the story now?
===================
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.--Eleanor Roosevelt
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By noraFebruary 25, 2008 - 1:50pmThe "OBAY!" Campaign
was confirmed to be an Ontario Colleges advertising campaign.
enjoy.
Obay! rolled out a few weeks ago across Ontario.
"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"
Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian
Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced
Learn. Think. Believe & Act...
- Email this page
By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 25, 2008 - 2:15pm21st Century voting -- Delusion or Reality?
Ralph Nader was right when he said POLITICAL BIGOTRY is a problem! And it leaves so many of us Citizens out of being represented, and leaves us out of a rightful chance to gain representation!
What if:
Ron Paul gets in...
Then Mayor Bloomberg...
And there's Ralph Nader in the running too?!
McCain would be hurt most. And Nader would be there to pressure Obama or Clinton (if she strongarms those super delegates) to keep the Dems realizing there are Progessive Voters out here.
I expect it would be most interesting.
I understand the stuff said about 'a third party won't work', but I think multiple parties would really make it clear how many people need representation in this country, and how many are being left out presently! If this were made clear, then maybe we could illustrate that some tweeking of our "democracy" is imperative so we can finally get better representation for more varieties of political viewpoints! We need ACTUAL REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT in this country, and the two parties are failing to deliver that representation!
My friend says instead of being treated as freaks and "extremists", most interest groups would then actually have a chance to take there interests to the political arena and argue their interests there. It would be much more obvious then that demonization by the Estblishment and Corporate Media of folks like the eco-minded advocates for the environment and clean energy, and peace and justice advocates, and animal protectors, open-minded educators, union workers, vegetarians and so on -- that that demonization is in actuality a crime of OSTRACIZATION of these interest groups from democratic participation AS POLITICAL FORCES.
Let's review the word 'REIFY' and its role in today's politics.
reify: to treat (an abstraction) as substantially existing, or a concrete material object.
The reification of American politics is alive and well.
This is a process based in delusion (the delusion of schizophrenia by the way!).
Americans who decide to vote for a candidate who does not represent their ideals, needs, principles and best interests JUST BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE SOME OTHER CANDIDATE IS MORE ELECTABLE, they are choosing A MYTH (the delusion that this "electable" candidate is my candidate and will represent me) even though that is not the truth and that candidate may NEVER represent their best interests! (If it's not clear, please read this again and give it another chance!)
Sanity means rooting yourself in the REAL WORLD and finding real world solutions for our problems! (Something Ralph Nader has been committed to, by the way.)
Voting for A MYTH, is not an act of sanity!
Review the word 'reify'.
Don't reify your vote.
When you vote for someone who doesn't represent you (your choices, like, say Medicare-for-All), you don't get represented. If you vote for Mr. Electable just because he is considered Mr. Electable, you are voting for a myth -- voting for a dream/delusion that he might represent you. You vote a falsehood.
Do this, and you no longer have REPRESENTATIVE government.
It is just not SANE behavior to vote like that.
Must we continue to embrace the Dems who -- despite their 2006 voter mandate -- still FUND the OCCUPATION, fail to restore HABEUS CORPUS, fail to stand solid against illegal domestic surveillance of innocent US Citizens, fail to challenge signing statements and executive orders and no-bid contracts, fail to stop public funding for private sector (fascist/brownshirt style) armies, fail to stop election fraud, drag their feet on challenging the Prosecutor Purge and Justice Dept. Disintegration, fail to halt the subsidies for coal and the price-gouging by Big Oil, continue to support cluster bombs and landmines (Hillary!), continue to subsidize nuclear power (Obama!), and need I go on to mention that "impeachment" (that is, the Constitutional duty of the Citizenry's representatives to preserve the balance of powers) "is off the table"?!!
The situation is even worse than it was in 2000, and we need the Ralph Nader to demonstrate concrete commitment even more now than we did then.
And when I say 'CONCRETE', I mean it. Touch that seatbelt in your car that saves your kid from being a projectile. How does that compare with making a 'bet' that Barack Obama will dump his corporate pals and the lobbyists on his campaign staff and someday let loose on those ideals he hints at in his Change and Hope speeches? Which is more CONCRETE -- your seatbelt proof of Ralph Nader's commitment to change what doesn't work for the wellbeing of US Citizens or Obama's feelgoodaboutchange 'image'. A 'bet' is a wierd kind of thing to choose as a substitute for our Constitutionally-provided vote to secure REPRESENTATION. Why vote for someone who doesn't represent your needs, principles, best interests on a 'gamble' that the "electable" candidate (media-approved) maybe eventually might change and someday represent you?
The dream of winning a bet, the worship of mythology, the heady state of suspension created by delusion -- Shake 'em off and recapture the down-to-earth reason that produced our Constitution and over the years provided us with improvements in our lives through concrete effort.
========
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.--Eleanor Roosevelt
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By noraFebruary 25, 2008 - 6:20pmbut if your Electorate
but if your Electorate cannot TAKE the issues Nader puts in FRONT OF YOUR NOSES & negotiate those ACTUAL ISSUES INTO the platforms of your leading corporate candidates.
Then you've lost any hope of democracy...
because you're simply taking what is handed to yaou by their corporate lobbyists & backers.
THE TIME TO NEGOTIATE CHANGE IS BEFORE THEY GET ELECTED.
"Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!"
Namaste,
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @ ThisCanadian
Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced
Learn. Think. Believe & Act...
- Email this page
By BlueBerryPickNFebruary 27, 2008 - 3:35pm