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OPEN THREAD ON TODAY'S SHOW

By The Lionel Show

 

Hold onto your hats, we’ve got Bill Donohue from the Catholic League. He asks: why is it ok to bash Catholics when there’s outrage every time someone hints at insulting Islam or Judaism.

 

Also, some picks from the day’s news. The Army fesses up to poisoning the sea off the New Jersey Coast. The White House plan to erode our liberty. Presidential pickpockets in Albania; nice work Secret Service! Dan Rather speaks. And speaks again. Also Bush’s eloquence shines again.

 

And many more stories too.  

Today we start our occasional updates from New Orleans. We’ll talk with all manner of folks about life after Katrina and after the government abandoned them.

 

Random Link of the Day.

 

Thoughts, comments, complaints?

Call us 24 hours: 212-871-8283

Email: thelionelshow@airamerica.com

 

Comments

(111)

The end of AAR for me.

As bad as Lionel is (one of the worst, actually), listening to him "interview" that nutjob Bill Donohue is the final straw for me. As a devoted AAR listener since day one I just can't take it anymore. NOBODY should be giving a disgusting person like Donohue a forum to spew his hate-filled rhetoric.

If this is the new direction AAR is heading, I don't want to be a part of it.

Good luck!

BYE BYE

Uhmmmm...don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good Lord split ya. CYA!

Donahue is being awfully hypocritical.

This guest is rather unbelievable.  The Catholic Church is continuing to reap what it has sowed for more than a thousand years.  Indeed, the Roman Catholic position is CONTRARY to what Bill Donahue is saying.  The Church condones intolerance, including encouraging its members to speak out about the private religious and moral decisions of non-Catholics.  Any doubts, read the following from the Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.org (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm):

 

The Church's legislation on heresy and heretics is often reproached with cruelty and intolerance. Intolerant it is: in fact its raison d'être is intolerance of doctrines subversive of the faith. But such intolerance is essential to all that is, or moves, or lives, for tolerance of destructive elements within the organism amounts to suicide. Heretical sects are subject to the same law: they live or die in the measure they apply or neglect it. The charge of cruelty is also easy to meet. All repressive measures cause suffering or inconvenience of some sort: it is their nature. But they are not therefore cruel. The father who chastises his guilty son is just and may be tender-hearted. Cruelty only comes in where the punishment exceeds the requirements of the case. Opponents say: Precisely; the rigours of the Inquisition violated all humane feelings. We answer: they offend the feelings of later ages in which there is less regard for the purity of faith; but they did not antagonize the feelings of their own time, when heresy was looked on as more malignant than treason.

 

Telling, not discussed in this section was the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of men, women and children for heresy during the Albigensian Crusade (one of many examples).  Indeed, acts of intolerance, violence and extremism are essentially excused in the passage above.  The world is the product of people kowtowing to religious and political authority.  You reap what you sow, Bill.

Listening

Listening

Listener

Sometimes listening to people you disagree with helps you reestablish your beliefs. Lionel is not promoting what good old Bill has to say. It amazes me how many of you AAR listeners just don't get it. I agree with your political positions, but you seem to just like sitting around listening to people you agree with continuing to say things you agree with. That doesn't interest me and it doesn't make for good radio.

how dare you sir?

you AAR listeners?  I'm offended of the generalization, and steryotyping.
haha? don't worry you'll get it later.

Bill Donohue doesn't need more airplay

He has an open seat on FOX and is given way more media time than he deserves; and liberal voices are given scant airtime by the corporate media.  There are far more pressing issues out there; but Lionel isn't interested in the Democratic revolution, he's a self-promoter who's only interest is ratings.  Sam Seder, Marc Maron, Al Franken, et. al. were great at getting listeners involved in the real issues that affect our lives.  Lionel just wants to press people's buttons, for good or bad.  He spends hours on the most inane, inconsequential topics.  His format is just a sorry fit for Air America.  And by the number of posts here (Seder's show used to generate dozens of comments), my guess is that nobody's listening.

Lionel Sucks

Lionel Sucks

Way to Support

Freedom of expression, Listener. You aren't interested in what people like BD have to say in a controlled environment? How do you even know what you're "against" if you just plug your ears and scream "lalalalala" when you have a chance to hear them and even respond?

 Yeah, maybe you should go and find somoene to tell you how to feel about people like Donohue without actually having to experience what he says first hand.

You mean you never heard Bill Donohue anywhere else?

Bill Donohue has more of a platform than 90% of the people we get to hear on Air America - a network that exists precisely so that we can hear those people, and not the same right-wing hacks we hear on the airwaves everywhere else all day long.

I can't believe we lost a show that gave us people like Bill Scher, Joe Conason, Christy Hardin, Melanie Sloan, and Duncan Black so we could get Bill Donahue, who we can see all over our televisions.

Bill Donohue: An antisemite, a hate-monger, whose idea of "Christianity" is to obssess on other people's sex lives. 

Yeah, we definitely need more of that.

AC
More liberal media at The Sideshow.

Good Show!

I am sure thaat more people than bloggers listen to Lionel.     

are you kidding me???

what is happening? am i really listening to this on air america?  i am sickened.  bill donahue just made fun of transgendered people, saying he can't even keep up with them anymore. and lionel made a joke instead of tellinghim hes an idiot?! ew, they are calling each other friend and buddy now. am i being punk'd??

I think you're right, Nicky.

I think you're right, Nicky. I ususally pod cast because I'm at work or in class during this time-- and lionel is way better w/o commercials. 

 Anyway, speaking of listeners-- I wish the Unofficial Mayor of West Tampa would call in.

Submitted by mpearson76 on June 13, 2007 - 9:00am

Lionel's show would probably be better if it was nothing BUT commercials!

On some great & glorious day the plain folks will reach their hearts desire at last, & the White House will be adorned by a downright moron. - H.L. Mencken

Ha Ha.

I agree that he doesn't hold a candle to the super bad commercials.

What good would it do to rip

What good would it do to rip into bill?? Would he renounce his faith? Change his mind? We all KNOW he's wrong, what good would it do besides provide you with some vicarious thrill to hear lionel tell him that his beliefs are ignorant/stupid? Don't you see that lionel is, again, making BD comfortable so he lays out his own rope? The majority of lionel's audience knows that BD's beliefs are all jacked and doesn't need lionel to say it because it's more interesting to hear what he says unfettered and with his defenses down. The last thing I want to do is listen to a Fox-style shouting match. If you give people like Bill a piece of your mind, all you end up doing is losing it peice by peice.

common sense observes that...

 

 

 hatemongers already dominate AM radio....AA is needed to provide an additional forum for

this garbage???......grow up!! 

I have to agree with Listener

What the hell?! It's bad enough Air America gives us the really bad Lionel but if I wanted to listen to right wing radio then I sure as hell don't need to tune to Air America to do it. From now on the only thing I will way about Air America is that it has been taken over by the right.

Generalization

Hate to say this, but generally what I've seen from AAR listeners has been pretty consistent. There are smart ones who get what is going on here, and then there are the clueless ones who seem to think that Lionel is here to destroy the station and offend them, rather than teach them how to be critical thinkers.

Of course I'm aware that everyone is an individual, but as a group, half of the AAR listeners, as I've heard call Lionel and post on this blog, are as crazy in a left wing sort of way as the craziest right wingers I've seen anywhere.

And of course Lionel is going to be civil with Donohue while he's on the air. Lionel will tear him apart afterwards, if he just gets into an argument with him then we don't get anything out of it.

I'm waiting for the tear apart part.

Get a gripe. Letting bigots on the air just legitimizes them.

If you were in his camp to begin with ...

His flock is beyond redemption. If they haven't considered the possibility that they are being deceived prior to hearing his bolux on AAR they wont be converted by their beliefs deconstructed by Lionel.

Have you seen Dawkins make his presentation to a Liberty College audience via CSpan? It's enlightening.

Imagine trying to explain to Bush that embracing Murtha's plan to LEAVE IRAQ TO THE IRAQIS NOW will actually be face saving. It's like trying turn an alcoholic into a wine connoisseur. NOT GONNA HAPPEN EVER.

Ditto! Re: SamoaRowe ... teach them how to be critical thinkers

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.
~ Mark Twain - or not

Mr. Professional Catholic

I love listening to the Professional Catholic trying to save the Church from the downward spin in this country. The best way to combat this bunk is to stop going to church and stop putting your money in the little brown basket, eventually they won't have enough money to even pay this a-hole to save face with the more informed public. Can you hear the pompous self-righteousness in his voice? Thats what America hates, so keep it up Mr. Bill, your proving our point and you don't even see it! I love it!

Seder's blog

I visited Seder's blog the other day and saw dozens upon dozens of insane, one sentence posts, by the same couple of people. The amount of posts on a blog is not symbolic of ratings in any sense.

I gather you're paid by Lionel to blog in his defense

No sane person could listen to his crap.  The man sucks.  Sucks.  SUCKS.  I never thought I'd be saying this, but bring back Jerry Springer!  Anybody but that self-promoting jerk-off Lionel.

Prerogative

It's up to Lionel and his producers who he wants to interview, and it's the listeners prerogative whether to listen, and it's Bill Donahue's choice to hypocritically deride and didain people he disagrees with while simultaneously whining that his political party gets no respect.  Personally, I think it's valuable to see this kind of hypocrisy on parade, provided you are able to think critically about it and see it for what it is.

I miss Sam!

I miss Sam more than ever! Bring Sam and Marc back!

Lionel hates BS.

I guess he is a self hating blowhard.

Maron

 

Hear! Hear! on Seder and Maron . . . 

. . . especially Maron.  "Morning Sedition" was the best thing AAR ever had going.  It was the closest thing we've had to "The Daily Show" for radio.  Too bad the AAR management didn't know what do with it.

Fox

AAR listeners don't watch Fox news. Hi.

Seder's show wasn't a very entertaining show. it was a place for people who agreed with him already to gather around and say, "Yeah! Yeah! Me too." That was a large reason that AAR was doing poorly-- entertainment took a back seat to ideology. They broke up the most entertaining shows (MS, Unfiltered) to create a string of bland, virtually identical voices. I know that we take ourselves way too seriously to enjoy entertaining shows, but I'm going to buck up and just accept entertainment for what it is, damn it!

Hey!

I visited Seder's blog the other day and saw dozens upon dozens of insane, one sentence posts, by the same couple of people. The amount of posts on a blog is not symbolic of ratings in any sense.
I blog there.  I was a big fan of Seder in the morning, BTW; now I listen to Lionel.  He's different, but interesting.

Um hum, that's a lie

You say "dozens of posts" from a "couple of people". Seder's June 3rd show generated a total of 3,315 comments from Sunday to Saturday. Well, OK that's over "276 dozens" so maybe that's what you meant. I'm not going to count the posters, it's certainly a lot more than "a couple". But there ARE a couple of posters on Lionel's blog who account for the vast majority of positive posts. And he's averaging what, maybe 10 to 20 posts per show - that's pathetic. I suspect his audience is mostly illiterate as well as being technically challenged.

I'm so sure you were a "big fan of Seder" - I think you're what's known as a "concern troll"

Ugh... who cares how many

Ugh... who cares how many posters post? What does it actually mean? That sam's listeners are unemployed? It doesn't mean anything other than he has more posts on his blog. That's the conclusion that can be drawn. Maybe he'll get a better seat in heaven.

Was it just me?

Was it just me or did I hear Lionel sucking his ass?

Whoa

Yep, you've got me. Lionel pays me to defend him here. I should have been more subtle with my defense. Lionel cares so much about what people say on this blog that he absolutely needed me here.

So you all sound pretty upset by what Donohue is saying. So you agree that you disagree with him? Don't you feel more firm in your beliefs now? Especially how Lionel is going to hear Donohue apart when this is all said and done the same way he did when he had that pro-war guy on a couple weeks ago?

Clearly you do not understand what this show is about so maybe you should stop listening and constantly visiting the blog of the host you claim to dislike so very much.

Lionel Sucks

Still

Lionel pays you?

He should get his money back

Morning Sedition

. . especially Maron.  "Morning Sedition" was the best thing AAR ever had going.  It was the closest thing we've had to "The Daily Show" for radio.  Too bad the AAR management didn't know what do with it.
My feeling is that AAR did not have the funds to maintain the Marc and Mark show. Contracts, money to pay quality writers.  That's the free market system for you.

Sorry Nicky

I wasn't trying to suggest you're a moron because you post on Seder's blog, I'm merely reporting exactly what I saw when I visited it. It's kind of like Lionel's thoughts on Florida. Not everyone in Florida is stupid, but the stupidest people live in Florida. Well, not everyone who likes or posts on the Seder blog is a moron, but a lot of morons like and post on Seder's blog.

You're right

Your defense of Lionel has caused the scales to fall from my eyes.  He doesn't suck.  I only think he sucks, when actually he's brilliant.  BRILLIANT!  Hear that sheeple?  SamoaRowe says that Lionel is BRILLIANT!  And he/she/it is right -- LIONEL'S A FRIGGIN' GENIUS!

A genius who'll be rightly relegated to the dustbin of history in a year's time.

We have to wait a year?

Can Air America afford to carry such a loser for so long?

You're right. He's been

You're right. He's been nationally syndicated for 18 years because he's a loser who sucks.

Yeah

Like his mentor, Limbaugh.

Smerconish

Philly DJ.  
Joe has the morning MSNBC gig?  

Oh!

Oh, now we can't disagree! Do you sense the disdain for the Church and the bullshit they spew? Its the archaic non-sense the masses are fed up with. We want reason not superstition. The church just wants to hold onto power and control the flock. Maybe the end is near...for the church, that is!

Imperfect

So you all sound pretty upset by what Donohue is saying. So you agree that you disagree with him? Don't you feel more firm in your beliefs now? Especially how Lionel is going to hear Donohue apart when this is all said and done the same way he did when he had that pro-war guy on a couple weeks ago?

Clearly you do not understand what this show is about so maybe you should stop listening and constantly visiting the blog of the host you claim to dislike so very much.

Outside of perhaps Laura Flanders--and a few others--there isn't a host on AAR who doesn't say things I find  appalling or annoying. . I still listen. 

The people who are most upset about crappy Lionel

are the ones who have been here since the start. We have watched each new era of Air America get worse and worse and when there have been good new shows they were cancelled in the next round of "reinvention".

Please don't try to tell me Lionel is a progressive. He is a freak. And he should be relagated to some weird small market that has no access to anything else so they are hungry just to hear something coming out of the radio.

Kind of like Bush's reception in Albania. 

I was here from the very

"are the ones who have been here since the start."

I was here from the very first second of AAR when Franken proudly announced that Air America Radio was on the air and when Randi told Ralphy that we couldn't afford him. I left it on all night so I could wake up to Morning Sedition and listen to unfiltered as it transitioned into another great episode of The O'Franken Factor.

You're right about the rebuilds, though-- Danny G trashed the network and now they have to do something. However, I've listened to Lionel longer than AAR has existed and, no, he's not a liberal-- but is he progressive? In the literal meaning of the word, yes. He's for positive change, civil rights, and honest-to-god freedom of choice. So what if he gave BD a forum? I think that I'm going to be okay for having heard words that I don't agree with. It's important to listen to and study the people whom we consider to be our own antitheses-- it's why we study things like genocide and psychopathology (but to a more mundane degree) because it's important to understand them so that we can understand ourselves.

If you want him to be a "liberal" in that he looks the way you want a "liberal" to look, then you really aren't any more open-minded than the block-headed rightwing talking boxes that flood the air with their blather. There are different ways of advancing similar ends.

Some profess to never quite know enough about a problem in .

sufficient detail to warrant action beyond further contemplation. On the other hand,
some of us are neither interested in finding 'common ground' with fascists nor dialogue with racist
hatemongers. Moreover the contentious splits and divisiveness within the so called 'progressive community' indicate that time would be better spent working towards establishing some realistic   working comity between these groups from within rather than wasting time reassessing propaganda  from without.

GDR

Get a grip, man. I'm merely stating my opinions and BACKING UP MY THOUGHTS. Your posts are generally "Lionel sucks" and that's it. Why don't you try arguing your case rather than trying to make me look like I'm presenting opinion as fact.

Just the facts:

Lionel Sucks.

That's a fact!

Yes, Lionel really does suck

Oh GDR...

So you admit you're a one trick pony? If that's going to be your contribution, then I have nothing more to say to you.

And Nicky, you seem like a good dude. Please don't think my arguments necessarily include you.

Admit it...

You're Lionel.

Hahaha.

That's the best compliment I've gotten all day.

Speaking of Florida

I have a few old time radio recordings that WFMU sells.  There is this one Florida DJ--Bill Lassiter?--who takes some crazy calls from Floridians.  Crack up!

Mpearson

You're my favorite poster here. Thank you for your great contributions.

Limbaugh might be a fat

Limbaugh might be a fat piece of crap, but he doesn't suck. I can't stand him but he knows how to put on a show.

He sure does in the way the Romans

knew how to put on a circus.

Rush

Yeah, Rush is great at his job. Sadly, his opinions are factless and irrational, so I can't listen to him because he pisses me off too much.

But let's not confuse political ideas with the quality of a person. Lionel has said repeatedly that he used to work at the same station as Rush and that Rush was a hell of a nice guy off the air. I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but I know a lot of conservatives who are extremely nice also. I don't agree with them, but if I ever reach a point where I start judging people based on their political ideas and not on the quality of their person, then please shoot me.

Member for: 4 weeks, 4 days

Tells me all I need to know.

Stalin was a "nice guy" too...

But God forbid I should judge him based on his political ideas!

Listening

And Nicky, you seem like a good dude. Please don't think my arguments necessarily include you.
I don't care. I am merely commenting.

Sheesh

Okay, I was trying to be respectful. But whatever.
Edit: Nicky, I think you misunderstood me. I was trying to say that you weren't the target of my criticism, not that I was trying to maintain a conversation without you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Forest Grove!

She is streaming.

Prof.

Lionel sort of reminds me of a professor I had.  What do you mean?  Be clear?  What is it?

4 weeks, 4 days.

So what's your point? Am I not progressive enough for you?

My point is you have been a member for as long as Lionel

 has been on Air America. Sorry. That a little suspect to me.

I think...

I think Lionel is a breath of fresh air. He questions everything and encourages you to think and he is completely hilarious. He is a welcome addition to AAR in my mind at least.

Whoa, you got me there.

Yes, I followed Lionel here from WOR. I'm a new AAR listener, and I've been listening to Randi Rhodes for the past couple of weeks also.

I'm not Lionel, if that's what you're getting at :P

Sean!

Sean from Buffalo?

neilrogers.com

check out neilrogers.com - he's a real talk show host. I've been listening to him for 12 years. He would never let Mr. Catholic spew without rebuttal's. And those little chuckles and chortling between Lionel and Mr. piety was gross.

4 weeks 4 Days?

Looks like every group can have its elitist snobs.

Why I blog

I like Lionel's style with callers. Keeps you on your toes.  I would slip up constantly if I ever called in.

Politics

Does Lionel ever talk about politics, in the conventional sense.  (New Orleans can, and should be a (very) political topic)

If you want to be entertained, watch "The Price Is Right"

Air America's hosts have always been about encouraging and empowering people to change the status quo.  Lionel was on the air for 18 years and nothing changed (and frankly I never heard of him before); if anything the country got more conservative.  In just three years, Air America acted as an information channel: informative, but entertaining and always encouraging people to be politically active.  They introduced many of us to alternative sources of information: The Guardian, DailyKos, Huffington Post, The Nation.  We became active and we changed Congress (we, as a whole).  Lionel just wants to "entertain" (very loosely defined).  He neither wants nor cares if his listeners vote or contact their representatives.  Stay dumb, just listen to Lionel and his verbal acrobatics and convince yourself that you are listening to intelligent radio.  In the meantime, nothing changes.  I'm willing to bet that the typical Air America listener is politically active, while the typical Lionel listener is not.

Convince me.

Lionel is a hate monger?  I don't get that. He tries to elicit clearer thinking from callers. That sort of thing.  Does he ever get explicitly political?

Excuse me.....WakeTF up....

I was referring to his guest William Donahue...BTW
Members of the Catholic League's board of advisers include conservative author and media analyst L. Brent Bozell III; conservative radio host and syndicated columnist Linda Chavez; right-wing pundit and author Dinesh D'Souza; former Republican presidential and senatorial candidate Alan Keyes; and National Review Washington editor Kate O'Beirne.  (Racist?..Fascist?...QED)

One more thing...I don't seek tips on developing 'clearer thinking' from talk show hosts...maybe
YOU need that 'sort of thing' ......

You're my favorite poster here?

Can the general manager post here?, I guess so.

Blog

Lionel has been reading the blog, it seems.

Lionel reading the blog.

I assume he would since it's blog and all, but what made you say that?

More Great American Cities...

Chicago

Seattle

???

i just got it!

AAR put lionel on the air to force us to go premium.  finally it all makes sense.

Not all hosts read their blogs

(At least not regularly.)
I assume he would since it's blog and all, but what made you say that?

He was mentioning his "ideology" as being to get people to be more clear and critical in their thinking.  

The show and the Catholic attack dog on it

My jury is still out on your show... nothing personal.

This morning you took a contrarian view on Islam and women, using Rice of all p